You eliminate 1/3 of a 1 hive team options when MT goes up. Celerity will still be the best upgrade, I mean get to hive, marine, rt, avoid bullets quicker. Give a counter to the most imba upgrade in NS. However, silence will now be as it should - the element of surprise.

i wish!

so once you have silence, walking or running you saying MT cannot detect you? you realize how powerful that is?

let me show you.

2 hives up
chambers - mc and sc

everybody cloak and go silence!

not only MT is going to be useless, you might as well remove MT.

nevertheless, there should be some real counter against MT. I was thinking adding a chamber that shields - within chamber range - from MT....unless commander scans. that be to counter the chamber, forcuing commander to scan. Also this anti-MT chamber should auto cloak itself, but not cloak aliens or anything else..just itself...unless commander scans area and it might be seen now.

well, its an idea, just like yours or somebody elses...keep them flowing.

Kiddo I hope you're not serious. You just described exactly what a sensory chamber does.

You do realize that 100% cloaking isn't seen on MT and Sensory chambers provide 100% cloaking at any speed.

well, the guy started the topic was. Thought I be to.

I kinda get sick of the whole "Omg... MT overpowered thing"

* MT means no armor cause all res is in MT. Get SC + focus and own em
* SC completely counters EVERYTHING of MT. No exceptions. (obs is NOT MT and expensive to spam the map with)
* SC can be "spammed" on important areas untill res is enought, its a PRESURE chamber, to PRESURE.
* Also SoF is kinda ironic. They can't see you, you see them.

See, all the benefits just like "TheGuy" said.

The thing is: only SC counter MT...


Not true, SC counter nothing in the range of an observatory.

to balance MT, how about false readings from parts of the maps that make noise, like heavy machinery, elevators, fans, ect?

SC and cloaking do not counter MT completely.

A few reasons:

1. Aliens must either spam SCs to allow aliens to cloak-run at 100%. Otherwise, aliens must walk most of the time to keep cloak at 90% or higher, to avoid MT. Doing this would slow down aliens' speed, so they should just run instead and be detected by MT.

2. A commander can easily just scan the area, two MTs allow for a scanning everytime the commander issues the marines to go to a important point(Such as double, a hive point, etc).

3. A commander may also place an MT in an important place, like a hive location.



My ideas and suggestions:

1. Make silence delay the refresh rate of MT, from one second to 3 seconds. This won't stop MT completely, marines still have a generally idea where aliens are but aliens are able to easier ambush marines because of the three second delay.

2. Replace silence with another MC related upgrade. Silence is useless when MT is researched. I am not sure how many people, and how often players get Motion Tracking and how many get Silence, and how long silence is effective... but in the games I've played, the marines always get MT, and silence becomes totally useless.

So my suggestion is just to replace it completely.

3. Make cloaking at all, even 30% cloaking prevent MT. Or make semi-cloaked aliens slow the refresh rate of MT, like suggestion #1.

For me, I prefer option 1 or 2. Silence is pretty useless right now, in classic and in combat. I believe silence should be changed to be buffed, or at least replaced.

For MT balance issues, I have a suggestion here too.

That's the name of the game folks. Make the change. Too powerful? Tone it down somehow. *HINT* That's why we have beta releases. The point is DO SOMETHING.

*not directed at a specific person*

I said it counters MT.. did I say obs. Did I say scan.
Note the lack of a question mark. >_<

Darkling pretty much said it. Early mt means no upgrades/adv armory, late mt most often balances the struggle against 2 hivers a bit. There are so many thingys that are worth 35 res that mt doesn't really need any changes.

i dont think MT, slience or SC's are the big issue here, i think scan is the back breaker if i am correct.

two things tho before i start on a rant

if alien already lock down a chamber and rines then take motion it is normal a tought fight to get hive two and keep it up, rines just simply know your heading there

if we do take SC first, duel obst and obst at major rine controled locations pop up, not so bad its well with in there right, SC's idealy require there to be no gaps between cloaking but thats just not feasable even in some 6v6 games SC's at every junktion/ T sections is how ever completely viable and does the trick, if players know how to use it meaning chambers are 100% walk from radius to radius, or dance around in chamber radius before rapidly jumping to the next one

i think the issue is with scan its only counter is recharge time, res limits it a bit, and wether or not yo uahve a obst standing, my bigest issue with it is i can be i na ambush location 100% cloaked scan, i get light up like a x mas tree, it makes ambushing completely useless, its not like the room was scaned and i moved, me and 5 other aliens apear on there mini map, now that entire area is a memorie game if you cant kill the SC in the 15 second window, ether move on and scan again or fall back and bait the next wave

so the few changes ill prapose in a diff thread will be,

scan doesnt light you up if your not moveing keeps / makes ambushing viable, yes you still uncloak
when scaned you uncloak at a rapid rate, but not a instantanious rate, uncloaked non moveing aliens shouldnt show up on MT and or scan and that when the scan is drop there is a one second warning for aliens to ether stop moveing or set them selves up before the scan acctuly takes effect

Except that MT is NOT too powerful. If the marines have MT, maybe aliens should stop trying to sneak up on them and instead try to get some teamwork done.

You mean 2+ skulks per marine? Which is of course assuming marines are dumb enough to move out on their own.

Look okay.

Silence is a powerful upgrade.
Motion tracking counters silence.
Cloaking counters motion tracking.
Observatories/Scans counter cloaking.
Scans are limited and observatories cost res.
Eating nodes counters scans.
Motion tracking makes it harder to eat nodes.
Motion tracking however costs a lot of res and you neglect other serious upgrades by getting it and delay armour1, phasegates, etc.
Fades have an easier time vs less teched marines.

IT GOES ON. Everything is a counter to everything. It's the way is game is meant to be. Everything is overpowered when it's counter isn't played effectively. Silence shouldn't counter motion tracking, motion tracking tracks motion, not sound. If silence did counter it then what exactly would be the counter to silence? It's such a powerful upgrade. There are two ways senses in NS: Sight and sound; to lose sound is a massive blow, it needs a counter, motion tracking provides it.

Only, you can't counter right back at them, what with hive-locked chambers...

- MT first is instead of something
- Later armour 1, later phasegates, later advanced armoury
- The upgrade takes a long time.
- Marines are vunerable because they have no upgrades, can contain progress, their resources.
- Less resources, they have one piece of technology which whilst powerful isn't enough on it's own. They need to do 3 minutes worth of teching in 1 minute to get up to necessary midgame standards (armour1, weapons1, phasegates at the very least - weapons2, advanced armoury basically won't happen).

You sense they're doing MT first (notice the lack of armour1? have an obs in base but no arms lab?). Just get your chambers up straight away and limit their early game progress, you'll have a lerk by the time it's up and they'll have no other upgrades.

It isn't rocket science - motion tracking provides a counter to itself, this is why it's hardly used first but used later midgame when you're rocking the res war (easier to hold res).

I was pushing more for making silence actually usable after MT, more so than nerfing MT. While making silence stop MT was the obvious suggestion, if you perhaps have an idea that gives silence a use after MT, that's possible as well.

Again, giving silence a use after MT is what I'm aiming for here.

But to the person who said, "EVERYTHING COUNTERS EVERYTHING" argument, then what's really the counter to regen, carapace or redempt? Wouldn't these upgrades still be viable, despite anything marines get? What about celerity? Would anything marines get stop you from picking this upgrade?

What if walking while cloaked always made you disappear from MT.
Also add an official 'togglewalk' command for easier use.
This way, an intelligent alien might sneak up on MTing marines, but has a general disadvantage of much slower speed while doing so.

Also, im not sure if this is already implemented. If so, plz ignore this post =)

You currently don't show up on MT when you're 100% cloaked. Don't know the exact cut-off point.
That is regardless of whether you're walking with Cloaking or if you've been near a SC for 12 seconds.