Some of you may know either myself or the modeler Denryu of counter-strike skinning fame, and we both see a lacking in the quality of the Marine's weapon models. Therefore, we are going to begin to replace each model with a new one. They will be the same basic model, except a higher polycount and a very high quality skin. Rest your fears at ease, I'm not skinning for photorealism here. We definetly want to keep the war-torn, sci-fi theme going. Otherwise it wouldn't tie in with the rest of the environment.

Expect updates periodically. Comments welcome.

-carb

erm....w00t!

Great! The models already rocked, but improvement is always welcome! Keep up the good work!

I like the current models but it will be good to see some high poly models that are of the same type.

The current models are amazing already, considering that they probably could do a whole lot more.

can't wait to see them, sure they will be good as usual

Importing new models and such is not supported by NS afaik, that might only be for player models tho not sure if that covers for weapon replacements as well.

Why would there be a model forum on their board if custom models weren't supported? If it was just new skins, it'd be a SKINNING forum.

Plz, don't talk out your bum.

I'm guessing the NS modelers kept the polycount at certain level to maintain a desired framerate and performance. It's simple to make a model look better by adding poly's, but is it worth the framerate and performance loss? Why bother? Maybe you can do a better model with the same performace polycount?

Im sure there are plenty of users whose specs allow them to not care about the poly count because their performance would not be noticably affected. I think the current gun models are superb, but if you think you can do even better why not try?

QUOTE

and we both see a lacking in the quality of the Marine's weapon models.

I did the design (and yes, many of them are derivative of current weapons, on purpose), skinning, and modeling of most of the weapons, and I stand by my work. Frankly, I've searched and viewed some of the stuff you guys have done, and it's good, but it doesn't really impress me to the point where I'll let you make that judgement (especially in my neck of the woods) without speaking up in my own defense.

Definitely, feel free to update any items as you see fit, but leave the attitude at the door, please.

And the guns were kept to strict poly limits because Flayra wanted this game to work against the original half life system specs.

Back to back, Mike! We'll show these punks.

**obscenity** guys, the game hasn't even been out a week yet. Can't you at least show a tiny bit of respect and let us feel good about our work for a short while before you monkeys tear everything apart?

/me fluffles Relic25

I'm sure it's just that HL has a such vibrant modeling community and everyone's eager to start work on the spangly new game we've all been given.

Yes, I mean, lay off it. These guys did a wonderful job, hands down the best weapon models in any game, including DoD. Whether or not you think you can do better, they did great, and hindsight is always 20/20. And, as has been mentioned, they needed to keep the polys in a nice range. Remember, Flayra once wanted NS to work in software mode, which woud definetly not hand too many polys.

I thought the weapons looked pretty good myself.... oh well.

Although, I give it , ooooo...3 months? before someone reskins/models certain items/models in the style of a very famous sci-fi movie...

Personally I'd like to see the Onos reskinned as a giant hamster or guinea-pig, but then I'm a bit odd.

Seriously, I like what they've done and I certainly don't see any "lacking in quality..."

But thats just my opinion, and my weak PC couldn't handle huge polycount models anyhow...thing is, I dont see that making incredibly detailed models is a real demonstration of skill, making the same models look good within tight performance-related restrictions, now THATS a skill.....

Amen, Relic . . . A-f'ing-men.

Look, folks-- It's not like we're asking to have our egos stroked, or enforcing worship of our work.

It'd just be nice to have a breather where we can sit back and watch people enjoying the mod that we, among others, have devoted over a year and a half of our lives to . . .

And as I said, I'm not against people making replacement models/skins/whatever. It's just the ridiculous elitist attitudes
. . .

Heh, says the man with 666 posts.

QUOTE (Souris @ Nov 7 2002, 02:25 AM)

/me fluffles Relic25 I'm sure it's just that HL has a such vibrant modeling community and everyone's eager to start work on the spangly new game we've all been given.

you hit the nail on teh head

having spent my fair share of time trudging through the trenches of BS in the CS modelling community, i know all about the |337-ism that it seems to produce.

im sticking with mikes models, cause they ro><or!

Don't sweat it too hard guys, you know it looks great. People are just trying to tote their own stuff. Happens with every successful/popular mod. CS has great looking models... yet there are soooooooo many replacements. Take it as a complement, how many other mods, within a week of release have bots and a modeling skinning community starting up? None have, not even dare I say, counterstrike. NS is a superb product and wouldn't have attracted this much attention if people didn't think EVERYTHING looked, sounded, and played great. The speed with which the modeling community is coming together can only be a compliment to your work. SO, even though they come with and elitist attitude, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to shun. Things like this can only bring more people, people who will download YOUR game and play it. Maybe its just me, but I think this is a good thing. Anyhow, you will find the majority of people think your artwork kicks. Just don't sweat it is all I'm really trying to say and let things take their natural course even if its happening a little faster then you'd like.

Jesus, this has to be the biggest group of people who helped make a mod, TAKE OFFENSE to people wanting custom things in the game. You ask people to lay off your work, but you haven't even seen what they've come up with. You may think the models are superb, but some people personally would like little changes. If enough people say something, someone might be so gracious as to make a custom model, especially if they have the same feeling.

Does this destroy your work? Absolutely not. The numbers of custom model users in ANY mod is a tiny tiny minority compared to people who install and play. Hell, there are more people who just visit or even post on this board than are interested in custom models.

I say, if this mod allows custom models, which it seems like it does, considering it made a MODEL forum for people to post such things, you creators need to lay off people, and see what develops. If someone posts models which in theory could be considered an exploit, such as the bite model not closing, then delete those threads. Say something against such things, but don't bash people's will to create custom things. Creating a custom model isn't meant to bash your hard work, believe me, everyone appreciates it. So just, take a chill pill, and see what happens. The mod's been out a week and you're already flying off the handle and model makers. That's not the way to try and keep a good community structure around here.

And personally, I like all the weapons, the models and skins are great. The only thing I have a gripe with, are animations. The idle animations seem too long and intense for "scary combat aboard a space station". The hmg's patting it I can understand, but swinging the lmg around like it's a toy and then it just pops into place when you begin firing, seems very unnatural. These are the type of things I'd want someone to do. I don't need super hi poly models or whatever, but some do. Some have great machines and can run everything with hi poly hi res skins, and you should let them. No point in stifling someone's creativity, especially because of what the poly count might be. If you download a custom model, you should know wtf you're getting yourself into, and if you dont have the machine for a hi poly model, don't use it. Those who can will appreciate it a lot more.

All in all, not trying to bash you guys, but you're not being very helpful or nice around here. You're taking things way too personal, like a new skin means your's wasn't good enough. That's simply not true, so lay off. Please, let this community thrive and see what type of things people release. You'd be amazed...

QUOTE (|0see3| @ Nov 7 2002, 12:31 PM)

All in all, not trying to bash you guys, but you're not being very helpful or nice around here. You're taking things way too personal, like a new skin means your's wasn't good enough. That's simply not true, so lay off. Please, let this community thrive and see what type of things people release. You'd be amazed...

Um...it's hard not to take it "personally" when someone posts a thread like this and starts off with "we both see a lacking in the quality of the Marine's weapon models. Therefore, we are going to begin to replace each model with a new one." That person is saying that our work isn't good enough so it needs to be redone.

If you look back over all the dev posts in this thread and others, I don't think that you can say that we are not being "very helpful or nice". We've stated numerous times that we are fine with people making custom models and skins, as long as they :
A. Don't have a large impact on gameplay
B. Aren't created with the attitude that "these game models suck, I could do so much better".

Try spending a year and a half of your life pouring all your endegy and creativity into something, then have people come along and replace it all in the first few weeks the it's out, not only becuase they would like to see a giant hamster onos, but because they think the current art is low quality.

I would've liked to comment, but SLAP went by and summed my thoughts up quite nicely.

Hey, it's not as if CM, Relic, Def or Squeal hadn't already made very positive comments on stuff posted in these forums - but if you came to a party, went straight to the organizator, and told him it'd not be as good as the one you'd put up shortly, here, in his house, would you expect him to stay polite?

I hope no-one took the "giant hamster" comment the wrong way... was meant as a bit of a joke tbh..while I occasionally replace , say the skins or models in JK2, it's not 'cause I dont like the originals I just like a few more options to play with..although not including original trilogy models in a StarWars game does seem like a bit of an oversight on the part of that dev team imo...

The only other customs models I use are the ones in the "BritPack" for DoD, just replaces the US uniforms with UK ones, besides, the red-berets are much easier to identify quickly, especially if you're a slightly colourblind guy playing on a FF=on server, like me.

Anyway, as I said, I like the models so they'll pretty much be staying as they are..

Certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. As an ex-art type I appreciate that it would be irritating to finish a painting, hand it over to someone and they immediately start scribbling on it with a marker pen...

SLAP, people are going to have their own opinions. You and many MANY others think your models and such are absolutely perfect, and I have to agree. They fit damn well with the whole scheme of things. I've seen more posts saying "change this aspect of play, cuz i hate it" than asking for model requests.

All I'm saying is, it's Half Life, and every mod community has a custom model part of it. Compared to even custom maps, it's tiny. People like to play with what mod creators made, usually cuz they all fit together, there's no mix and match parts and/or models. Also, some don't want the hassle of findign a model that can even compare to something they've been using for a while. The thing is, if there IS a modelling community that's supposed to be supported by everyone, people will come out and say what they dislike, in hopes someone will make a model that suits them more.

You can make everyone happy, but it seems you've made more happy than sad. People liek the models and the skins, it's definitely apparent by the amount of posts in this part of the forum compared to others. Yeah, it's only been a week, but some people are used to customizing, and that's the way it happens. Either you live with it, or get **obscenity** off at every little posts that doesn't praise your models. Just as some may hate parts of the code, they may hate some parts of the models.

And also, peopel are gonna want odd requests. They may want mech type aliens, or darker, smaller, geiger type monsters. Everyone won't share your view, so either you support people's request, with giving the 2 people that end up using a hamster onos the benefit of the doubt and let it slide, or you bash them for wanting something fun in a mod. Some don't take it as serious as others, and that's the reason a third of the models are made, fun.

Just sit back and look at how many people are happy with the mod. Just take the max people playing at any given time and compare that to the maybe 20 peopel complaining about gameplay/models/animations/maps/etc... You've done a bang up job, some just see their own personal ways of improving it, even if just for themselves.

This 'debate' ends now.

The absolute last thing any of us need is condescending, patronizing lectures from someone who is in all probability half our age.

You will not sway our views on this, and I don't care to spend the effort any longer to show you why. Until you have experienced our viewpoint exactly the way we have, you cannot judge our reactions.

Now go on, enjoy the mod, be creative, do whatever you want to do, but I am done with this issue.

That is all.

QUOTE

SLAP, people are going to have their own opinions. You and many MANY others think your models and such are absolutely perfect, and I have to agree.

QUOTE

Either you live with it, or get **obscenity** off at every little posts that doesn't praise your models.

You're missing the point. People are entitled to their own opinions-- and I hardly think we're stifling that. Nor are we trying to stifle the community's creativity. Nor are we demanding that people walk around, zombie-esque, saying 'The dev team's work is perfeeeeeeect . . . . The dev team's work is perfeeeeeeeeect . . . . "

QUOTE

if you came to a party, went straight to the organizator, and told him it'd not be as good as the one you'd put up shortly, here, in his house, would you expect him to stay polite?

I've been trying to think of a good metaphor, but Nem's party reference nailed it on this one.

I don't think that it's an odd request for us to have on our forums that people don't immediately begin to decide to change the way our models operate, or write condescending posts about how they're going to save the game from our 'low quality' models.

QUOTE (CrouchingHamster,HiddenElvis @ Nov 7 2002, 03:08 PM)

I hope no-one took the "giant hamster" comment the wrong way

Don't worry, Hamster / Elvis, no offense taken. I was just using that as an example. Your suggestion was fine. Heck, I'd probably even download an onos hamster and use it for a little while, if it was done well enough. As long as the person putting it up didn't precede it with "The onos model sucks, so here's a much better one."

Now, without further ado, I'm going to follow Relic and get the hell out of this debate. It can only go downhill from here.

don't get so angry, basically all their doing is making them higher poly, no complaints here


wvu denden and carbeh

They're good enough for me, but I suppose higher-poly might be better. With the dark texturing, it's hard to see jaggies.... well except on the Onos.

I found that post rather annoying as well, its not really nice to walk right up to someone and say "your stuff is nice, but I could do better". I don't doubt that the NS skinners and modellers could do just as good as you could. But, it was important that the models weren't high poly.

QUOTE (Carb @ Nov 6 2002, 11:42 PM)

we both see a lacking in the quality of the Marine's weapon models.

WTF??? A LACKING ARE YOU BLIND??

Seriously the marine weapons are amazing! Why change them? The idea is that they were futuristic but with modern day influences, I woldn't change any of them the Light MG looks "light" and rugged, the Heavy MG looks heavy and like the support weapon it is, The Shotgun looks like a perfect assualt weapon, and the Grenade Launcher looks cool (even though its the old HMG model, it still looks like it would fire grenades) I cannot help it I have a bullpup configuration weakness, it makes me go weak at the knees!

To sum up If you want to make a custom weapon model, thats fine I'll be able to see the amount of work you put in, I just don't think I'll be using them when we already have good models