Custom vs Vanilla, mods that don't affect gameplay? Options

[Wyzcrak]

There's word that the game will make it easy to find "vanilla" gameplay servers from "custom" gameplay servers.

I'd be super happy if that "easy" included a way for me to find "vanilla" gameplay on servers that have cat-herding technology (vote kick, map vote, res slots, etc, etc, etc) -- "mods" not of gameplay, but having affects which many consider pleasant.

Just because I'm not interested in "pure" (NO mods at ALL) doesn't mean others aren't, so, frankly, I'd love to see three options as a player:

1. Pure servers
2. Modded servers
3. Vanilla gameplay w/ cat-herding technology

[FuzionMonkey]

To be honest, it would be nice if there was some form of votekick/votemap functionality built into the game from the very beginning, or at least a default plugin.

But if that isn't the case, it would be nice if server plugins declared themselves as gameplay-modifying or not. I think devicenull is sort of leading the NS2 server plugin scene, so I think it would be nice if that became a standard from the beginning. The sort of server "tags" from TF2 are nice as well.

That way it would be easy to find the kind of server you want.

If there are going to be 3 tiers there might as well be 4.

1. Pure server, no plugins at all.
2. Vanilla gameplay with non-gameplay affecting plugins (mapvote, etc)
3. Vanilla gameplay with minor gameplay affecting plugins (Think nightvision, extralevels)
4. Modded gameplay (a major mod, drastically different gameplay. Like CO vs NS or MvM)



This post has been edited by FuzionMonkey: Jun 10 2009, 06:42 AM

[Firewater]

While it never hurts to have server information available, if someone wanted to they go to said server community's website (as probably all of the modded servers in NS1 did) and find a list of plugins there.

I think it would be difficult in steamworks to find every plugin that a server admin is running on a server, also most server ops put a small description in the topic title anyway.

[Jimyd]

While it never hurts to have server information available, if someone wanted to they go to said server community's website (as probably all of the modded servers in NS1 did) and find a list of plugins there.

I think it would be difficult in steamworks to find every plugin that a server admin is running on a server, also most server ops put a small description in the topic title anyway.

That is if they have a website. Nothing like joining a bot llama filled 24/7 2fort server. Honestly, I'm not gonna go join Joe Schmoe's website everytime I want to find about his/hers plugins/mods, because I don't like reading through peoples personal blogs on a GeoCities/Yahoo! website.

And it seems to be the new cool thing to lie about server tags (TF2), with like: Fake player counts/Instant Respawn/Other bull****. =(

This post has been edited by Jimyd: Jun 11 2009, 02:16 PM

[homicide]

They should md5 plugins and provide filters based on any plugin a player has seen before.

block all plugins [ ]
or
block selected plugins:
combat [ ]
xmenu [x]
admin mod [ ]
flying scorpion [ ]
pen15 bots [x]

[locallyunscene]

The ability to see what mods are running on a server easily would be a killer feature. Especially if you could then filter that info out.

Realistically, I can think of two implementations for allowing administrative plug-ins while avoiding others:

• Define a set of classes with that are scoped with access to admin only type of variables.
  - OR -
• Have "approved" versions of plugins.

[Thansal]

The ability to see what mods are running on a server easily would be a killer feature. Especially if you could then filter that info out.

Realistically, I can think of two implementations for allowing administrative plug-ins while avoiding others:

• Define a set of classes with that are scoped with access to admin only type of variables.
  - OR -
• Have "approved" versions of plugins.

3) Not NEED them.

I honestly hope they put in a robust set of admin tools.

As for seeing what mods servers are running:
I am fairly sure they said that was a goal.

[devicenull]

3) Not NEED them.

I honestly hope they put in a robust set of admin tools.

As for seeing what mods servers are running:
I am fairly sure they said that was a goal.

TBH, I've never seen a development team get admin access right... and this is based on 50+ games over every engine imaginable.

[Thansal]

TBH, I've never seen a development team get admin access right... and this is based on 50+ games over every engine imaginable.

I agree, but it would still be awesome if they got it right

[Firewater]

That is if they have a website. Nothing like joining a bot llama filled 24/7 2fort server. Honestly, I'm not gonna go join Joe Schmoe's website everytime I want to find about his/hers plugins/mods, because I don't like reading through peoples personal blogs on a GeoCities/Yahoo! website.

And it seems to be the new cool thing to lie about server tags (TF2), with like: Fake player counts/Instant Respawn/Other bull****. =(

By that logic, couldn't the server admins just give false names to the plugins to mess with people who use the filter?

I say don't bother with a filter system for plugins, if you a join a server that turns out to be a bust, just leave.

[Thansal]

By that logic, couldn't the server admins just give false names to the plugins to mess with people who use the filter?

I say don't bother with a filter system for plugins, if you a join a server that turns out to be a bust, just leave.

MD5 the plugins.

[Firewater]

MD5 the plugins.

Wouldn't that require constant developer attention to maintain the database?

[ASnogarD]

I would LOVE it if there was a feature to ensure that no customisation was allowed on a particular server.

I dont mind mods and cutomisation , its just that some are designed to give the player a edge...and its annoying if what I see isnt what the enemy is seeing. Texture mods , character skins that make the enemy stick out in the enviroment, louder versions of audio cues...that sort of thing.
I dont really enjoy silly addons like Lerk Lift... end up with the aliens all going Lerk and dumping the marine team into a nearby abyss.

I personally would happily go for a server that enforces a vanilla , official files only client...as an searchable , filterable option.

[locallyunscene]

Wouldn't that require constant developer attention to maintain the database?

Just as much time as they wanted to devote to it. Who says they have to validate every plugin that someone sends to them?

[devicenull]

MD5 the plugins.

This means every minor changes to a plugin would result in a new MD5sum. I don't really think thats a good idea.

[Firewater]

Just as much time as they wanted to devote to it. Who says they have to validate every plugin that someone sends to them?

Because it would completely break the system because server operators could use MD5 approved plugins as well as extra ones that are not on the MD5 list.

[Fang_Xianfu]

I think you're making this far more complex than it needs to be; server tags solve all these problems. A mod would just need to add itself to the list of tags when its code is run. That, coupled with include and exclude for specific tags on the client side, is all you need to find whatever you like:

mvm combat -extralevels -buildmenu -forcevanilla

If you wanted to go really overboard, each tag could have metadata attached to it, so a mod's tag could include version information, website, author, perhaps even a brief description, so that you can find out something about a tag you've never seen before.

This post has been edited by Fang_Xianfu: Jun 13 2009, 12:04 AM

[locallyunscene]

Because it would completely break the system because server operators could use MD5 approved plugins as well as extra ones that are not on the MD5 list.

And then those servers wouldn't be recognized as vanilla servers.

[Firewater]

And then those servers wouldn't be recognized as vanilla servers.

And then the player could still connect to a server that has plugins that he or she is not interested, unless all of the plugins are MD5. I would recommend that server operators put an accurate description of plugins either in the server browser or MOTD (if there is one) and if the players are disinterested or lied to effectively, he or she can leave if unsatisfied.

[noncomposmentis]

And it seems to be the new cool thing to lie about server tags (TF2), with like: Fake player counts/Instant Respawn/Other bull****. =(

Actually the TF2 team seems to be doing something rather smart about that. Personally, I'd agree that delisting (permanently) bad acting servers is not a bad punishment for that kind of misbehavior. I've never really understood the point of filling your server with bots in order to try and fill it up with players. Everyone simply joins and leaves after 10 seconds.