Development Blog Update - Engine questions answers Options

[Rhodri]

Well to add my 2c to the bunnyhopping issue, I personally think it should be removed and replaced with a skill based movement system that looks less stupid, and is more intuitive (I don't mean easier as such, just more responsive and flexible) - note: this isn't a question of realism or dumbing down the game, it just looks frigging stupid to have skulks bouncing round like rubber balls all over the shop.

And before someone brings out the much over-used - "you just want it removed because you can't do it" card, I can and I still think it's a daft floor in the way the HL and Source engines handle movement.

[PaladinDude]

Well to add my 2c to the bunnyhopping issue, I personally think it should be removed and replaced with a skill based movement system that looks less stupid, and is more intuitive (I don't mean easier as such, just more responsive and flexible) - note: this isn't a question of realism or dumbing down the game, it just looks frigging stupid to have skulks bouncing round like rubber balls all over the shop.

And before someone brings out the much over-used - "you just want it removed because you can't do it" card, I can and I still think it's a daft floor in the way the HL and Source engines handle movement.

I REALLY like this idea as I have always thought that in a game that's supposed to about the atmosphere that it seemed very out of place in NS! I love the idea of skill based movement bonuses. A different set of movements for each creature/human class would be great, so that the movements that might give a skulk a "leap" sized jump with only 1 hive would not do anything if the player was playing as an onos, but a different set of movements would give an onos a "charge" but do nothing for a skulk.

[Unsichtbar]

Unsichtbar > Hum ? A game without linux server files ?

It's impossible... or just totally stupid. Don't worry

Are you sure about that? UKW = US company, lots of them are just focused on Windows platforms.

A small company like this is maybe not able to do such stuff (in time), i saw them only talking about Max coding the engine. This is not id software or Epic who may shipts copys of their games as dual boot DVD or let you download the full linux client after the release. I realy don't expect a linux or mac client form unknownworlds, but i hope the linux server stuff is not far behind the game release (and fully supported with updates and fixes). Today it is one thing to release a game but after the release it is also verry important that updates and fixes are fast and less painfull. There is a big difference between a mod release and a full price game, customer support is verry important, that includes a lot, not just bug fixing.

So i just hope for a positiv statement from UKW about stand alone linux server files, because there never was a low buged project in the past few years, that was successful without linux server support.

[Merkaba]

They said somewhere that probably unmodded and custom games will be seperated into two server tabs. I'm all for this, being a fan of the original unmodded game myself.

Unfortunately, this method still allows for a situation where a majority of servers are running modified NS2 games rather than the vanilla ones. Although, should NS2 be a well balanced game out of the box, this should hopefully be unlikely; however, if the game is released and people find its balance unsatisfactory, you can bet your ass there would spawn many 'improved' NS2 modifications and I fear that could shred the potential community to bits.

For that reason, I expect the community to only be allowed to MOD the game after a satisfactory initial fanbase is established - it's not like people could mod TF2 as soon as it was released, and considering NS2 is the flagship of UKW's introduction to the retail games market, it should be doubly important to make sure its players are attracted to the core game before allowing them anywhere near modification to the game.


I have something to say about bunnyhopping (sigh..why do I trouble myself): Comments or speculations about the impact of removing bunnyhopping in NS2 whilst using NS as a reference point are completely, totally, pointless. NS2 will undoubtably have so much new or changed (read: improved) over NS that you cannot compare or reasonably predict what results any changes might bring... so with that in mind, I urge people to please relax your BHpping defences (and offences) and try and live harmoniously until you have something substantial to actually argue about.
Having said that though, I personally am completely in support of removing bunny hopping for exactly the reasons Rhodri pointed out.

There are better solutions than 'bunnyhopping'; even bunnyhopping under a different name with actual implementation into the game so that it looks and feels right (rather than being an engine quirk, turned 'feature'). It's silly to think that any feature in NS2 brought over from NS must behave and be exactly the same, as if NS2 is a port - it's not going to be a port, people; it's going to be an evolution!

So BHppers and anti-BHppers should all just...relax!

[Radix]

That's the same as saying "We can't know that aiming will be a good gameplay mechanic until we test how fast fades blink."

But I've said what I wanted to say on the topic. Now it's time for more important things like.... donuts.

[Regnareb]

Are you sure about that? UKW = US company, lots of them are just focused on Windows platforms.

Yes, because a game without linux servers, is going to fail "irreparably", and because they already said that
If they want to sell their game, they have to make a linux server.

And it's 'easy' to do a linux server, for the linux client it's an other story.

[Flayra]

We're not talking about bunny-hopping - we're bored of it. We have our own thoughts on it as well and I think our solution will appeal to most everyone. Details will follow at some arbitrary later date, not now. Back to the engine.

We've mentioned a few times that we're going to separate "vanilla" unmodded servers from modded servers. The default will be to play on unmodded servers, but if you want to enter the Wild West, you can click a different tab and join those games. That's how we'll keep both our core experience and allow all the crazy stuff you guys are going to make.

[Sylver]

Moddability has many times proven to have a very positive effect on a game's sales (looking at Doom, and it's successors). On top of that it has other benefits like stimulating the community to create modifications and customizations to keep itself even longer entertained. Even though I previously stated that I'm a personal fan of the vanilla flavored NS, I also heavily support the idea of allowing your community to modify your product even further. As far as balance between regular and modded games goes, only time can tell and I don't believe I am the only one loving the standard game.

About bunny-hopping: I've never really liked it. I'm hoping to see more creative solution, though I guess Charlie has already hinted enough towards that.

[EliteParakeet]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE whatever you do, do not use punkbuster, it has got to be one of the worst anti cheat systems out there. It causes more problems for those who dont cheat then it does for the hackers. Stick with VAC.

[MoONinja]

Gotta ditto the punkbuster thing, my friend just gave up on playing BF2142 because punkbuster just chain kicked him whenever he tried to play, apparently it doesn't like vista. I know a few people who refuse to play any game that uses it.

[darktimes]

and punkbuster cant do anything against cheaters, it just couse problems for those who dont cheat.

look at crysis... they used it. they get flooded by hackers. now the MP is dead there.
however. i never seen a hacker in TF2 or any other game that uses VAC, eccept counter strike, and even there very few.

This post has been edited by darktimes: Aug 22 2008, 09:35 PM

[homicide]

If you can come up with a FPS movement mechanic better than bunny hopping NS2 will be a guaranteed success, because no one else has ever came close. I would say the chances are somewhere between zero and none.

[darktimes]

do you know what homicide?

lets stop arguing about BH and just wait for the game, to see what the devs did.

also, i cant do anything for or against BH. if it should be in or not.

hell! i dont know anything about NS2, just single conzepts of single things in it, but what DI, hives, aliens, how they changed, upgrades, etc etc do, and how they do, we dont know anything (which isnt bad. otherwise the community will discuss every little change in the game, will flame it or will love it. see RnL mod )

This post has been edited by darktimes: Aug 23 2008, 08:05 AM

[Gnubbolo]

remove: rate cl_cmdrate cl_updaterate, i hate the cfg warpers
they are worse then cheaters

[enigma]

remove: rate cl_cmdrate cl_updaterate, i hate the cfg warpers
they are worse then cheaters

I highly doubt you know what those commands do.

[Guspaz]

I must admit I'm hesitant... I know that Max wrote the engine for Titan Quest, but that game had some pretty serious widespread performance concerns; as an engine, it was really slow for the graphical fidelity it presented.

Source is a proven engine that looks good and sees constant updates from Valve. They have a lot of really smart people working on it. It'll be almost impossible to match their R&D without hiring a whole bunch of people to work on nothing but.

So, colour me worried.

[Hobbit]

I've been waiting a long time to dive back into NS! All is looking good, and I expect even more has been done since! Keep up the good work!

[xtremecore]

awesome.

[Hawkeye]

I used to play Gloom for Quake2. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a game similar to natural selection for Quake 2 which came out a little bit before Natural Selection. The general idea is the same, which is to exterminate the opposite team, though they lack many neat features that I like about Natural Selection (res spots, hence map control, comm chair, teamplay-oriented feel). Rather than resources, you could change your 'class' by frags. The higher the frags, the better the class you could 'buy'.

Well I recall one of the big downfalls about the quake 2 engine was that it couldn't touch player speed. All players were equally fast, humans and aliens alike.

I like a lot how you guys did natural selection in that humans have jet packs for a speed boost, but for the most part, the aliens have the speed advantage. The human advantage is range. I'd like to see that separation in ns2 for sure. It implies (at least for me) that you can build parts of a map to favor the kharaa and parts of a map to favor the frontiersmen. Bulky heavy armor *should* be a speed impedament. Being a light small skulk-like creature *should* be fast. It's what makes the game great: asymmetrical, yet balanced teams.

[Radix]

You bought better classes as you fragged more? Doesn't that multiply the skill gap a tad?